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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a reservation for an Integra, but I am still looking at other options. Unfortunately due to the market, many are hard to get. Here's what I've been looking at. I will be coming from a 2016 WRX Limited. In my next vehicle I need to have auto/DCT, and strike a balance between practicality and fun-to-drive. In other words, a hatchback or a truck.

  • VW GTI: Very fun, great DSG, but may be a bit smaller on the interior? New infotainment is a mess, no physical buttons.
  • Civic hatch: practical, sensible, obviously similar, but less power than Integra. Already concerned the Integra's 200 will feel insufficient. Civic SI is manual only and no hatchback.
  • Ford Maverick Love the idea of a small truck. Hybrid efficiency, or a spunky turbo option. Obviously availability and markups are major issues here.
  • Hyundai Santa Cruz similar to the maverick. Less value for dollar especially with the more powerful engine. I like the looks. Also hard to acquire.
  • Toyota Tacoma: Solid, proven, larger (mid-size) truck. Holds value like crazy. Cons - less creature comforts and more costly. Rumors of a hybrid tacoma coming soon though.
  • Mazda CX-50: Looks good, powerful engine. Happy with our '19 CX-9 with the same power plant. Cons: not a huge fan of small crossovers. no truck bed. Turbo pricing gets spendy. Adventure/outdoorsy "Meridian trim" pricing not yet revealed.
  • Mazda 3 Turbo Hatch: Spunky engine, again, same as our CX-9. But, a bit small, a bit pricey, a bit boring.
  • Hyundai Ioniq 5 (EV) Hard to find lower trim to keep it in my price range. Federal tax credit is available. Ready to make the EV shift?
Any others that interest you? Recommendations to add to my list? About $35k is my budget, but would have to stretch for some options like a Tacoma, Ioniq 5, or CX-50 probably.
 

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I can't say for sure I'll take delivery on the Integra that I have on order. Most of the alternatives are pricey, there is one that is practical:
BMW 330e xDrive: ~$47K I'm not getting a stick if I get this, but I will get 35+ MPG. I'll pay 10K more than an Integra, but I will get a 6.2K tax break. I'll be able to run on electric for my short commute on weekdays, and run hybrid mode on weekends to have a sporty fun car. I'd not keep this one for more than 5 years, due to reliability/cost to own concerns.​
Lexus IS 300 AWD ~$47K: I won't lose the V6 that is so dear to me, but no MT option. I will get an aging platform, but should have a car that I can easily keep for 10 years.

Toyota Camry XLE V6. ~35K: Another car that I won't lose the V6 but again no MT option. The downside, is that the rest of the car will probably feel like an appliance. Another car I can keep for 10 years.

Volkswagen GTI: ~33K: better performance, but probably not as fun to drive or as practical as the Integra will be. Long warranty - but will likely need it.

Honda Civic SI: ~30K (includes dealer markup): If the Canadian model was available here in the US, it would be a no-brainer, and I would have purchased it already. Prefer the Integra with the hatchback as well as essential features that the SI is missing.


 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Good list. I would want to consider stretching the budget for the 330e if it was offered in wagon trim.
Isn't the IS300 a 4 cyl and you have to step up to the IS350 for the V6?
 

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Good list. I would want to consider stretching the budget for the 330e if it was offered in wagon trim.
Isn't the IS300 a 4 cyl and you have to step up to the IS350 for the V6?
Lexus is very confusing:

The Lexus base IS300 is RWD and has a 4 cyl Turbo engine
The Lexus IS300 AWD has the same 3.5L V6 as the IS350 but it is slightly detuned.
 

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Copy/pasted from my new member thread:
  • Civic Si: significantly less money, but less full-featured. (If Canadian-spec was available, that might be the winner for me, but alas.)
  • Elantra N: Seems incredibly fun, certainly faster, though the loudness factor (both literally and visually) could be both a gift and a curse. Would like to check one out in person, though from a distance, the interior seems a bit cheap and it might not be as livable as the Integra, if I'm being honest with myself.
  • Corolla GR: Seems incredible, but I cannot imagine that this will be a) within the $35K range, or b) available at that price given production numbers and dealer markups, even if the MSRP is within reach.
I'd really like a manual transmission, so a lot of the entry-level luxury competitors in the segment are off the table. On the sportier side of things, not really into the WRX, GTI, or GLI. I know they all have their merits (though I think the infotainment on all of them would drive me insane haha).
 

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This is my conundrum, too. I'm thinking seriously about the GR86/BRZ as the only other alternative right now--since I have to have a 6MT and 4 doors is not a requirement. But I've also driven and considered a Mustang Ecoboost Premium, VW GTI (I had a 2017 GTI, which was a hoot to drive), Civic Si, Audi A4, Audi A5 (both Audis used), and Camaro 6 cyl. (I can't keep up with their trim level names, which are baffling to me, but that car is great fun to drive).

I also had a deposit down on a new WRX Limited but after watching/reading eviews and checking out the large screen in an Outback, I opted out. Plus other than the front end I don't think it's a very attractive car. Don't really need AWD down here in Tucson, either. Really interested in the Z, too, but just saw that its availability is delayed likely into late summer, plus cost estimates keep inching up--Performance trim likely to be at $45K plus dealer markups.

The Integra seems the most practical/reliable/best MPG/best all around of the bunch, but realistically for me it may just be which comes in/pops up (in the case of the GR86/BRZ) first. My Integra is due in mid-July. I'll be selling (or maybe trading in) my '21 Tacoma 4x4 TRD Off-Road, which other than its slugishness and terrible MPG I really like. It's got some decent tech features, too, with the Technology Package. But the headlights, unless you can score the LEDs, are very not great.
 

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  • Corolla GR: Seems incredible, but I cannot imagine that this will be a) within the $35K range, or b) available at that price given production numbers and dealer markups, even if the MSRP is within reach.
Wow! I heard of the GR - but never really thought anything from Toyota would impress me so until now, I never researched it. Specs look exactly like what I would want. Although 300 hp from a 1.6L does not sound like a good idea.
 

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Wow! I heard of the GR - but never really thought anything from Toyota would impress me so until now, I never researched it. Specs look exactly like what I would want. Although 300 hp from a 1.6L does not sound like a good idea.
Oh man, it's absolutely bonkers. It's a little triple that absolutely screams, by all reports; our pals on the other side of the pond got this engine in the GR Yaris, but it never came to America. Folks have been waiting to see how the GR Corolla was going to turn out, with some folks fearing that it would be a lesser car or neutered somehow, but it looks like it's the genuine article.

However, the hype is strong (and I'm not immune to it either), and considering that there is no WRX STi at the moment, and the fact that pricing has not been announced, I don't hold out much hope that this will be affordable, either at MSRP or in the real world once these cars are slowly rolled out. Happy to be proven wrong, of course.
 

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I have looked at options in case my desired Integra configuration doesn’t happen til next year or they decide to greed up the sticker price at my dealership and delay me past the life of my CR-Z.

On Saturday I test drove two Hondas.
‘22 Civic Sport Touring 6MT with tech package.
‘19 Civic Si, 41K miles, beat up but drove nicely. No amenities.
Last night the dealer got in a ‘22 Civic Si, so I went to see it. Very nice, really like the car, but no amenities. They can put in aftermarket seat heaters. It’s a $29K sticker but they greeded up the sticker to $37.5K. That includes B.S. big ticket fake options and a few real minor items like splash guards. After discussions, we left it at $32K. I am thinking it over today. If/when my Integra materializes, I can easily trade up.
Also texted Acura for status yesterday morning on what they can find out about Integra initial production dates, but received no news so far.
 

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Oh man, it's absolutely bonkers. It's a little triple that absolutely screams, by all reports; our pals on the other side of the pond got this engine in the GR Yaris, but it never came to America. Folks have been waiting to see how the GR Corolla was going to turn out, with some folks fearing that it would be a lesser car or neutered somehow, but it looks like it's the genuine article.

However, the hype is strong (and I'm not immune to it either), and considering that there is no WRX STi at the moment, and the fact that pricing has not been announced, I don't hold out much hope that this will be affordable, either at MSRP or in the real world once these cars are slowly rolled out. Happy to be proven wrong, of course.
Car and Driver seems to predict that the base model will list in the 32K range. Figure at least 3k more in option packages and a 5k minimum dealer markup. Would I pay 40K for a car that would easily last a long time? I think the answer would be yes, if the Integra ASpec + tech 6MT I ordered comes in over 36K before tax and tags.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Last night the dealer got in a ‘22 Civic Si, so I went to see it. Very nice, really like the car, but no amenities. They can put in aftermarket seat heaters. It’s a $29K sticker but they greeded up the sticker to $37.5K. That includes B.S. big ticket fake options and a few real minor items like splash guards. After discussions, we left it at $32K. I am thinking it over today. If/when my Integra materializes, I can easily trade up.
I haven't even been able to drive a '22 civic yet due to availability. What did you think of the sport touring? Also, did they let you drive the SI? If I was shopping a MT I would be tempted by the civic SI, though the markup is maddening. That being said, I'm sure your combination will come together soon. Strange how they seemed to make more CVTs right away despite the heavy MT bias of pre-orders, but the reservation in front of me at my dealer is a 6MT who has a build date. Hang in there!
 

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I have looked at options in case my desired Integra configuration doesn’t happen til next year or they decide to greed up the sticker price at my dealership and delay me past the life of my CR-Z.

On Saturday I test drove two Hondas.
‘22 Civic Sport Touring 6MT with tech package.
‘19 Civic Si, 41K miles, beat up but drove nicely. No amenities.
Last night the dealer got in a ‘22 Civic Si, so I went to see it. Very nice, really like the car, but no amenities. They can put in aftermarket seat heaters. It’s a $29K sticker but they greeded up the sticker to $37.5K. That includes B.S. big ticket fake options and a few real minor items like splash guards. After discussions, we left it at $32K. I am thinking it over today. If/when my Integra materializes, I can easily trade up.
Also texted Acura for status yesterday morning on what they can find out about Integra initial production dates, but received no news so far.
Did you drive the SI too? I was cross-shopping the Touring Sport 6M and SI and wondered how different they felt. What are your impressions?
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Car and Driver seems to predict that the base model will list in the 32K range. Figure at least 3k more in option packages and a 5k minimum dealer markup. Would I pay 40K for a car that would easily last a long time? I think the answer would be yes, if the Integra ASpec + tech 6MT I ordered comes in over 36K before tax and tags.
From what I've seen there are enough dealers willing to deal at MSRP, you just may have to have some patience. In my case one of the major local dealer networks has an MSRP policy for almost everything across their brands (Honda, Acura, Ford, Toyota, etc) though they did make exceptions to that for the Bronco and things like the GT500.
 

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I loved the Sport Touring with tech pkg, though we are all aware Integra’s package will have wireless CarPlay but current Civics don’t.
It rides smoothly but my CR-Z with new shocks/struts put on less than a year ago rides smoother than Sport Touring and the ‘19 Si.
Once they looked at my credit score app and income, suddenly they wanted me to drive the ‘22 Si, but I didn’t bother…I know I’d love it but wasn’t going to buy yet. If I decide later today I want it, I’ll call, make a lower priced offer, and go get it unless they try to screw me.
 

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Car and Driver seems to predict that the base model will list in the 32K range. Figure at least 3k more in option packages and a 5k minimum dealer markup. Would I pay 40K for a car that would easily last a long time? I think the answer would be yes, if the Integra ASpec + tech 6MT I ordered comes in over 36K before tax and tags.
I would be thrilled if that were the case, though I'm not super optimistic. It sounds like production numbers for the first year are going to be under 7,000 (with a chunk of those allocated to the limited version), and although I actually really like the base ("Core") version, I'd want all three option packages equipped which would price it higher in a hurry. (Performance package adds limited slip diffs front and rear, and I'd certainly want the cold weather and tech packages as well, as I'm trying to get something that is fun but also doubles as a livable daily.) And that would be before dealer markups. I'd love to have one but I don't think I could swing a super high car payment to be totally honest.

All of that said, that does make the Integra seem like a pretty dang good deal. I know it's not a 300hp rally beast, but on the other hand... maybe it's OK to not have to deal with youngsters in their slammed G37s flexing on you at every stoplight. I'm old. 👴
 

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I would be thrilled if that were the case, though I'm not super optimistic. It sounds like production numbers for the first year are going to be under 7,000 (with a chunk of those allocated to the limited version), and although I actually really like the base ("Core") version, I'd want all three option packages equipped which would price it higher in a hurry. (Performance package adds limited slip diffs front and rear, and I'd certainly want the cold weather and tech packages as well, as I'm trying to get something that is fun but also doubles as a livable daily.) And that would be before dealer markups. I'd love to have one but I don't think I could swing a super high car payment to be totally honest.

All of that said, that does make the Integra seem like a pretty dang good deal. I know it's not a 300hp rally beast, but on the other hand... maybe it's OK to not have to deal with youngsters in their slammed G37s flexing on you at every stoplight. I'm old. 👴
I have a 278 HP 2015 Honda Accord V6. I absolutely love my car. If it had a 6MT and an LSD, there would be no way that I would be willing to give it up. My prior car was a 2007 Honda Accord LX-SE with 5 speed. I had that car for 8 years and gave it up to my son who needed a car. Same thing is happening again. I have an 18 year old and a soon to be driving 16 year old daughter and the plan is to do a hand me down again. I was ok with the 2007, which wasn't a stop lot champion by any means. I probably called on all 278 HP 3x in the 7 years I owned the 2015. I do love the smoothness of the V6 and I also absolutely must have the brisk effortless acceleration that I get at 1/2 throttle. I also love the sound of the V6.
 

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Once they looked at my credit score app and income, suddenly they wanted me to drive the ‘22 Si, but I didn’t bother…I know I’d love it but wasn’t going to buy yet. If I decide later today I want it, I’ll call, make a lower priced offer, and go get it unless they try to screw me.
I've driven the Si and liked it but didn't love it. With the amenities, adaptive dampers, overall better design, and hatchback, and particularly taking into account the ridiculous dealer markup (though $32K isn't too bad I suppose), I'd be patient and await the Integra. I think just from an everyday driver perspective thanks to its tech and other features it's going to far surpass the Si.

I had a price quote on the Si and when I was driving over from my home, 10 minutes away, to the dealership, by the time I arrived I had a text from my longtime salesman telling me, oh, by the way, there's a $5K premium on the Si. Sorry, out of my control, he says. I drove it anyway, but not only was it not worth it, that was insulting.
 

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I just saw they dropped actual pricing. I'll be OTD on my civic sport touring hatch that I have reserved for about $1K less than the comparably spec'd (from the inside) Integra's MSRP. Sure the LSD adaptive dampers and and extra 20HP would be nice. But I had to go to 10 honda dealers before I got a non-jacked up quote. There aren't even that many acura dealers around.
 

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Revisions, only one left, besides the Integra:

BMW 330e xDrive: ~$47K I'm not getting a stick if I get this, but I will get 35+ MPG. I'll pay 10K more than an Integra, but I will get a 6.2K tax break. I'll be able to run on electric for my short commute on weekdays, and run hybrid mode on weekends to have a sporty fun car. I'd not keep this one for more than 5 years, due to reliability/cost to own concerns. Decided against it. No real good reason, just fell out of it.
Lexus IS 300 AWD ~$47K: I won't lose the V6 that is so dear to me, but no MT option. I will get an aging platform, but should have a car that I can easily keep for 10 years. Very nice, but back seat too small.
Toyota Camry XLE V6. ~35K: Another car that I won't lose the V6 but again no MT option. The downside, is that the rest of the car will probably feel like an appliance. Another car I can keep for 10 years. Can't see myself driving a Camry.
Volkswagen GTI: ~33K: better performance, but probably not as fun to drive or as practical as the Integra will be. Long warranty - but will likely need it. Too small. I decided the Jetta GLI 32K might be a good second choice instead. More power than the integra, yet similar fuel economy as the Civic SI. They tweaked the look a bit for 2022, and I don't dislike it as much as I used to. They added a blue color too which looks nice. Always wanted cooled seats. Not crazy about the black only interior.
Honda Civic SI: ~30K (includes dealer markup): If the Canadian model was available here in the US, it would be a no-brainer, and I would have purchased it already. Prefer the Integra with the hatchback as well as essential features that the SI is missing. After seeing the Integra, I can't go back to wanting a Civic SI. I'd overpay for an Integra before I'd overpay for a Civic SI.
 
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