[Jbash]

This post is to address the pervasive idea that the new Integra being based on the Honda Civic platform is

A) NEW
B) a bad thing...

It is also to address those who feel the Integra is underpowered, and are disappointed with the 2022 Integra's 200hp and 192 lbs-ft torque.

First of all, the Integra was ALWAYS a luxury version of the civic, using the platform and many of the same parts, interior and exterior.

Now, take a look at power and torque numbers down the years:

1997 Integra RS, LS, GS: 140hp @ 6300rpm; 127 lbs-ft @5200 rpm
1997 Integra GS-R: 170 hp @7600 rpm, 128 lbs-ft @6200 rpm
1997 civic Si: 127 hp @ 6600 rpm; 107 lb⋅ft torque

2006 RSX: 155 hp @ 6500 rpm SAE Net, 139 lb.-ft. @ 4000 rpm SAE Net
2006 RSX TYPE S: 201hp @ 7800 rpm SAE Net, 140 lb.-ft. @ 7000 rpm SAE Net
2006 Civic Si: 197 hp @ 7,800 rpm, 139 lb-ft @ 6,100 rpm

2022 INTEGRA (MT): 200hp @ 6000; 192 @ 1800-5000
2021Civic Si: 200hp @ 6000; 192 @ 1800-5000

So in 1997, the base Integra had 13 MORE horsepower and 20 lbs-ft torque than the civic SI (53hp and 21lbs-ft torque MORE for the INTEGRA GS-R)

In 2006, the base RSX had 42 hp LESS than the civic Si and the same torque, but the RSX type S had 4 MORE hp and 1 more Lbs-ft torque than the Civic SI (so essentially the same).

In 2022, the base Integra has EXACTLY THE SAME hp and torque as the Civic Si; the Integra Si will undoubtedly have quite a bit more.

In fact, the Acura Integra base models and the Honda Civics (Si) have flip-flopped: Early Integra base models had MORE than the civic Si (both base and performance models), midstream RSX base models had less than the civic Si, and now - they have exactly the same!

Those who see this new iteration of the Integra as a disappointment need to take all this into consideration, as well as considering that in 2006, it was the type S was essentially the same as the Si, and not the base model - Now, in 2022, the base model Integra is IDENTICAL, in many ways, to the civic Si. The Type S will be something else...

I have a 2006 RSX type S, so looking into this was very informative. I am very tempted by the 2022 Integra MT, but have been wanting to hold out for the Type S (but... that'll be likely MUCH, MUCH more expensive...)

So for now, living in Canada and getting all the goodies on an Si that the Integra gets (except adaptive dampers), I can't really justify the 11,000 Can$ more (including the difference taxes) that the Integra will cost; it would essentially be $11k for (debatably) better styling and the status quotient of owning an Acura over a Honda.

It'll definitely be a 2022/23 Honda civic Si for me now (white with black emblems)... but I still can't wait to see what they offer up for the type S (in 1,2,3...or maybe even 4 years...?)

Thoughts?

John

 

[TEXNTEG]

In the 90s, Si in Canada was equivalent to an EX in the US. When the EM1 Si came out in the US, Canada got the Si-R. That was more equal to the current Si per your post.

 

[johnv]

I was never a real Honda fanboi, but after getting irritated by the media, I discovered some of the same comparisons you have, looking at 30+ years of Integra<->Civic comparisons. I have a list of 6-8 reasons why, here in Murica, I think the Integra shines a bit brighter than an Si, and I use to justify my expense.
It's interesting your remarks because, today, the underpowered concept entered my mind again. But I told myself that it's not underpowered, I get to use the MT6 to manage the powerband. but 60mph in top gear is certainly modest acceleration.
Last summer I test drove two different Civics, both with CVT, and found them to have a lot going for them. Personally, I like the Acura as a more refined car, but not quite luxury.
Nice RSX!

 

[Jbash]

I was never a real Honda fanboi, but after getting irritated by the media, I discovered some of the same comparisons you have, looking at 30+ years of Integra<->Civic comparisons. I have a list of 6-8 reasons why, here in Murica, I think the Integra shines a bit brighter than an Si, and I use to justify my expense.
It's interesting your remarks because, today, the underpowered concept entered my mind again. But I told myself that it's not underpowered, I get to use the MT6 to manage the powerband. but 60mph in top gear is certainly modest acceleration.
Last summer I test drove two different Civics, both with CVT, and found them to have a lot going for them. Personally, I like the Acura as a more refined car, but not quite luxury.
Nice RSX!

Thanks! That pic is a few years old, but it's still in great shape.

And yes, 200HP (apparently about 222 on the Dyno) is not underpowered, especially for an under 3000lb vehicle that is the base version. The civic SI here in canada has: no adaptive dampers, BUT:

• Fog lights
• front and rear parking cameras
• Dashboard rev lights
• Heated seats (front and rear)
• Heated steering wheel
• Wireless charging/connectivity
• full digital, customizable display

And a few extra goodies, as well, which puts it well within the ballpark of the Integra A-spec Tech MT. I really like the way both cars look (the SI as really grown on me - never liked ANY of the prior versions...), but the Integra wins out slightly in that department also, just, for me, not $11-12k worth!

Cheers,

John

 

[johnv]

200HP (apparently about 222 on the Dyno) is not underpowered,

I came from the much heavier BMW 128i, a wonderfully dynamic car. But certainly not a speed demon either. 230 HP from the NA 6-cyl seemed significantly faster in the 2000-3500 rpm range, with less need for downshifting to accellerate.
But don't get me wrong, I love the car and would certainly make the change all over again.
Compared to a Si, I like the Acura's
Hatchback
Drive modes/adaptive suspension
Upscale feel/style
Terrific sound system
Heated seats
HUD (silly yes, but still...)
Wireless Android/charging

But at MSRP 8-10kilobucks more, I can see why some would pick the Honda.