In for the replies. Anytime someone has stopped me and asked about my integra I say "I wanted a turbocharged manual hatchback that wasn't german and the Civic was unavailable when I needed it."
Why has no one compared the 2023 Integra to the Sport Touring Civic ?
Everyone is comparing the Integra to the Civic Si. I get the desire for that comparison for those in the market for that, but literally no one has released a comparison of the Integra to the Sport Touring Civic? Why?
Was this an NDA type thing? Embargo? Are those gifted with the opportunity to showcase the Integra not allowed to make this comparison? These are the most obvious cross-shoppable vehicles, as the civic sport touring has 90% of what the Integra does minus 20 HP (on paper).
I for one was never interested in an Si (no hate at all). I wanted a Hatch. I wanted a Manual. I wanted something better than a base model car.
Why hasn't any YouTube reviewer been able to do this?
Was this an NDA type thing? Embargo? Are those gifted with the opportunity to showcase the Integra not allowed to make this comparison? These are the most obvious cross-shoppable vehicles, as the civic sport touring has 90% of what the Integra does minus 20 HP (on paper).
I for one was never interested in an Si (no hate at all). I wanted a Hatch. I wanted a Manual. I wanted something better than a base model car.
Why hasn't any YouTube reviewer been able to do this?
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They’re not very imaginative when it comes to comparisons. They compare against the 3 cars Acura told them they’re competing against, and they compare with the Si since it’s got the same powertrain and an MT. Reviewers emphasize specs because it’s easy to show.
Personally I would have considered a Civic hatch before an Si too.
Personally I would have considered a Civic hatch before an Si too.
It's a good question. That and the Mazda 3 with a manual were the only two I was considering as alternatives.
Some reviews of the Integra briefly touch on comparing the Civic hatchback, noting that it’s the more versatile car for packing large, heavy cargo. But traditional and YouTube auto journalists generally agree that while the Touring trim of the civic is a great car, its dollar value is very poor- if you’re about to spend over 30k on a Civic, just buy the Accord. Granted, the hatchback Civics have an x-factor in its better cargo versatility, but compared to the Accord’s overall value and the Integra’s drivetrain & performance features, that one advantage is negligible and only appeals to a narrow, niche market
You seem to be oversimplifying. There seems to be those of us in this thread that run by numbers opposed to empirical data.Some reviews of the Integra briefly touch on comparing the Civic hatchback, noting that it’s the more versatile car for packing large, heavy cargo. But traditional and YouTube auto journalists generally agree that while the Touring trim of the civic is a great car, its dollar value is very poor- if you’re about to spend over 30k on a Civic, just buy the Accord. Granted, the hatchback Civics have an x-factor in its better cargo versatility, but compared to the Accord’s overall value and the Integra’s drivetrain & performance features, that one advantage is negligible and only appeals to a narrow, niche market
I drove a '22 sport touring and a sport. Before the hatchback came out. I looked around my market for a ST hatch M6 to test drive, but couldn't find one, couldn't find a single hatchback M6 in any trim! I thought both the Civics were a bit noisy, but preferred the leather in the ST. Of course there is a noticable difference in engine performance, but the thought the 2.0 NA would have been adequate with the M6. And I honestly wanted NA, not turbo. But I didn't like the big black wheels on the Sport, nor the black interior of either. Finally, while I prefer the appearance over the previous gen, the lines on the Civic HB were just ok for me.
The Integra was announced, and I liked the styling and some of the "luxury" accessories, so I put one on order. Knowing that was a way I could get my preferred combo, and get it at MSRP. (I would have walked if my dealer went back on that.)
And I still got the big black wheels....
If could have gotten the Civic, I think I would have preferred the leather seats, but I sure enjoy the red colored interior. And I would have missed the adaptive suspension and HUD. I've only got a couple thousand miles on mine, but I'm starting to feel like the LSD is a pretty sweet enhancement too!
So that's my mini review, but I agree, the Civic Sport Touring is a better comparison in many ways. In other posts, I've argued the Integra could be reasonably compared to an A5 Sportback, or a Stinger. Watching all of these "automotive journalists" usually leaves me disappointed.
The Integra was announced, and I liked the styling and some of the "luxury" accessories, so I put one on order. Knowing that was a way I could get my preferred combo, and get it at MSRP. (I would have walked if my dealer went back on that.)
And I still got the big black wheels....
If could have gotten the Civic, I think I would have preferred the leather seats, but I sure enjoy the red colored interior. And I would have missed the adaptive suspension and HUD. I've only got a couple thousand miles on mine, but I'm starting to feel like the LSD is a pretty sweet enhancement too!
So that's my mini review, but I agree, the Civic Sport Touring is a better comparison in many ways. In other posts, I've argued the Integra could be reasonably compared to an A5 Sportback, or a Stinger. Watching all of these "automotive journalists" usually leaves me disappointed.
OP wanted to know why YouTube auto reviewers don’t compare these two specific cars, not necessarily our own observations and experiences between them:You seem to be oversimplifying. There seems to be those of us in this thread that run by numbers opposed to empirical data.
And YouTube reviewers literally observe and experience these vehicles to our benefit, so their data is as empirical as it getsWhy hasn't any YouTube reviewer been able to do this?
Feel free to check out the reviews- it’s their universal opinion that as great as the Civic Touring is, a base model Accord is the better purchase for the general consumer. So they naturally wouldn’t compare the Integra to a Civic trim they already don’t recommend- it’s not that they can’t compare the 2 cars, they don’t really want to
I technically made an empirical inference based on the already-established opinion YouTube reviewers have towards the Touring Hatchback 😁
They certainly all compared it to the Si, which they all complained about in one way or another, especially on markups and a catalog of missing features. The Si and integra have the same engine. That's about it. The Civic ST hatch is the same body style, a bunch of luxury features and the same engine with other subtle and niche differences. Those niche differences are what make them very cross-shoppable.So they naturally wouldn’t compare the Integra to a Civic trim they already don’t recommend- it’s not that they can’t compare the 2 cars, they don’t really want to
I technically made an empirical inference based on the already-established opinion YouTube reviewers have towards the Touring Hatchback 😁
I actually haven’t mentioned markups yet- I ignored Honda entirely when car shopping because of markups vs Acura generally selling at MSRP. So by that alone, that REALLY blows the Touring’s value out the window. Again, the Sport Touring is not a bad car, it’s just priced way above its segment and realistically can’t compete with other cars in its price range. If I was an Acura salesman and you told me you were cross shopping the Civic Sport Touring, I’d make a very strong case for the base Integra & I’d probably make a sale. And if you were firmly against CVT and wanted 6-speed, I’d tell you it’s near impossible to get a manual Sport Touring at MSRP, but the 6MT Integra has everything the ST has but a better engine (plus adjustable dampers plus LSD plus a better sound system) and it’s at MSRP. Again, I’m making a sale for sure.They certainly all compared it to the Si, which they all complained about in one way or another, especially on markups and a catalog of missing features.
The engines are tuned differently: that 20-horsepower difference is the main factor that steers many people towards the Integra. Sorry, but if it was really cross shoppable, there’d be less Integra ownersThe Civic ST hatch is the same body style, a bunch of luxury features and the same engine with other subtle and niche differences. Those niche differences are what make them very cross-shoppable.
In doing some research prior to pulling the trigger on the Integra, I did find a couple of Civic ST hatch review videos, most notably a POV one from The Topher. It was a standalone review and not a proper comparison, but it gave me a good sense of the car and how it measured up. (I believe the Savagegeese guys reviewed one as well.)
My main takeaways were that the car was certainly comparable in terms of amenities and price, though the powertrain differences added up and those shortcomings made the 6MT Integra more appealing. 180hp tuning aside, the lack of an LSD and a not-quite-as-good shifter (I believe they are different? Please correct me if I’m wrong) led me to believe that the Civic hatch was probably a great daily, but a bit less engaging than the Integra.
With that in mind, while it’s easy to pit the Integra against the Germans (entry level luxury showdown!) or the Si (it’s the same! save $9k assuming you can find one at MSRP! lol you can’t!), the Civic ST Hatch with a 6MT seems like an unfair fight despite relatively closely-matched specs. Once you factor in Honda markups and low 6MT availability for the hatch, it seems like the Integra is a better deal. At that point, even if you don’t care about the powertrain differences, it may just come down to styling and interior preferences.
My main takeaways were that the car was certainly comparable in terms of amenities and price, though the powertrain differences added up and those shortcomings made the 6MT Integra more appealing. 180hp tuning aside, the lack of an LSD and a not-quite-as-good shifter (I believe they are different? Please correct me if I’m wrong) led me to believe that the Civic hatch was probably a great daily, but a bit less engaging than the Integra.
With that in mind, while it’s easy to pit the Integra against the Germans (entry level luxury showdown!) or the Si (it’s the same! save $9k assuming you can find one at MSRP! lol you can’t!), the Civic ST Hatch with a 6MT seems like an unfair fight despite relatively closely-matched specs. Once you factor in Honda markups and low 6MT availability for the hatch, it seems like the Integra is a better deal. At that point, even if you don’t care about the powertrain differences, it may just come down to styling and interior preferences.
Is it really 20HP? That's a paper comparison and the engines and powertrains are identical. The reason we don't know for sure is, well, they haven't been compared! Honda and Acura underreport anyway. Again, same body style, same engine, mostly the same luxury features. The Si and Integra manual are worlds apart in comparison -- different body style, different seating, different amenities, and yet are compared by every reviewer. They literally only have the power train in common on paper. The majority of those interested in a civic si but end up with an integra is probably because the Si costs the same or is unavailable and/or lacks so many features.I actually haven’t mentioned markups yet- I ignored Honda entirely when car shopping because of markups vs Acura generally selling at MSRP. So by that alone, that REALLY blows the Touring’s value out the window. Again, the Sport Touring is not a bad car, it’s just priced way above its segment and realistically can’t compete with other cars in its price range. If I was an Acura salesman and you told me you were cross shopping the Civic Sport Touring, I’d make a very strong case for the base Integra & I’d probably make a sale. And if you were firmly against CVT and wanted 6-speed, I’d tell you it’s near impossible to get a manual Sport Touring at MSRP, but the 6MT Integra has everything the ST has but a better engine (plus adjustable dampers plus LSD plus a better sound system) and it’s at MSRP. Again, I’m making a sale for sure.
The engines are tuned differently: that 20-horsepower difference is the main factor that steers many people towards the Integra. Sorry, but if it was really cross shoppable, there’d be less Integra owners
One of the reasons nobody compares it to the CST is because even though the 6MT technically exists, it's unobtanium. On cars.com, there are 388 CSTs currently listed for sale in the entier country. 8 of them are 6MTs, and the remaining 380 are CVTs.
Now, if we're talking about the CVT Integras, then I agree the CST is a much closer match, but then again most car people reading car magazines and watching car channels on YT are not going to be considering the CVT at all.
Now, if we're talking about the CVT Integras, then I agree the CST is a much closer match, but then again most car people reading car magazines and watching car channels on YT are not going to be considering the CVT at all.
One of the reasons nobody compares it to the CST is because even though the 6MT technically exists, it's unobtanium. On cars.com, there are 388 CSTs currently listed for sale in the entier country. 8 of them are 6MTs, and the remaining 380 are CVTs.
Now, if we're talking about the CVT Integras, then I agree the CST is a much closer match, but then again most car people reading car magazines and watching car channels on YT are not going to be considering the CVT at all.
This is true, my honda dealer (and 2 others I called to be sure) told me they couldn't order a ST 6MT so in my case I went with the integra. I never considered the Si though, there was never a thought about it, hence this thread.
I don't understand those who are cross shopping these unless they really wanted an Si and couldn't get one but still absolutely needed a new "compact" vehicle and loved honda. They clearly didn't care whether it was a sedan or hatch that much, nor if it had any "luxury" features, right? I would have rather had the civic ST manual and saved 6-7 grand, although I do love my Integra.
I’m happy with the Integra, and I am enjoying the extra features and the hatchback, for sure. Having said that, I probably would have gone with a Civic Si if I could have saved 6 to 7 grand… but unfortunately that wasn’t possible with markups in my area. $35K was ultimately a hard sell when for a few grand more you could get an Integra, which is what I did.I would have rather had the civic ST manual and saved 6-7 grand, although I do love my Integra.
Don’t get me wrong, I did want the hatch and the extra features, but I certainly would have seriously considered forgoing all of that if I could have scored an Si at MSRP and saved close to $9K. The ST hatch seems pretty sweet until you realize it’s pricier than the Si, and the manual is unobtanium.
For me personally, I liked the features & amenities on the hatch and the sportiness/drivetrain of the Si… the Integra just ended up in that “why not both?” sweet spot, and ultimately not for too much more. I wasn’t going to be able to save much if I went with either Honda option, unfortunately.
This here. I was looking for sporty, and as Houndrunner said the Civic ST Hatch doesn't have the equipment to really compete with the SI/Teggy. I would have gotten an SI but they weren't available and/or had huge markups. So I went Teggy.I’m happy with the Integra, and I am enjoying the extra features and the hatchback, for sure. Having said that, I probably would have gone with a Civic Si if I could have saved 6 to 7 grand… but unfortunately that wasn’t possible with markups in my area. $35K was ultimately a hard sell when for a few grand more you could get an Integra, which is what I did.
Don’t get me wrong, I did want the hatch and the extra features, but I certainly would have seriously considered forgoing all of that if I could have scored an Si at MSRP and saved close to $9K. The ST hatch seems pretty sweet until you realize it’s pricier than the Si, and the manual is unobtanium.
Let's be honest here 220HP and better suspension is not exactly sporty. Its better than an econobox and steers a bit better, but its no mustang gt, bmw m, porsche or even a wrx. Practicality is the main reason to purchase these vehicles.
Practicality may be your main reason for purchasing an Integra, it was not mine. I suppose the point is we are enjoying our Integras for what we bought them for!Let's be honest here 220HP and better suspension is not exactly sporty. Its better than an econobox and steers a bit better, but its no mustang gt, bmw m, porsche or even a wrx. Practicality is the main reason to purchase these vehicles.
I guess “sporty” might not be the right word… I think “engaging” is a better word for what I was going after. Unfortunately, I wasn’t able to test out a manual Civic hatchback because they weren’t available, straight up. That said, I did want the practicality and the fun, so the Integra worked for me. If I didn’t care about ergonomics, I could’ve gone with the GTI - the infotainment and haptic controls are off-putting, but it’s quicker and it at least has a hatch. If I didn’t care about the hatch, I could’ve gone with it much faster and brasher Elantra N. At the end of the day though, I wanted something that covered a lot of different aspects of the driving experience, and although you can certainly find options that are faster/sportier/cheaper/nicer, depending on what your priorities are, the Teggy ended up being something of a jack of all trades (for me, anyway).
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